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Serious Mess Up
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paulrosenthal
PTcrewnie
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 137
Location: St. Charles, MO

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Serious Mess Up Reply with quote

Hello PT Crew and thanks for any answers in advance!

I an 01 Cruiser with the gray bumpers. I decided that the bumpers looked old and worn, and a new paint job is in order. Before we go any further, my knowledge of painting is slim, and I "hired" a friend to help me.

We went to Lowes and purchased Rustoleum Automotive Paint (as recommended by the employee there, she said that plastic doesn't matter, even though the can says metal) and Primer.

Got home, put lacquer thinner on the bumpers, taped it up, put on newspapers, and began priming it. On the back bumper, we waited about ten seconds between coats (I understand this is bad lol). After a couple of coats, the bumper was full of blotches, and my neighbor came over. He took the paint can and put a really thick coat on the bumper while holding the can very close to the bumper. Needless to say, it looked great for thirty seconds and then the entire bumper cracked out.

We let it dry for a couple of hours, and my friend put on a few more coats (on top of the cracked paint). These cracks aren't going to "come out" by painting over them. There are also a couple of spots on the front.

I need some advice as to what my next steps should be. Should I sand it, re-prime, and re-paint? Should I sand, re-paint? Did I buy the right paint?

Thanks for your responses, and I can provide pictures tomorrow if it helps.
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chris15
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Rustoleum makes a paint and primer spray specifically for plastic parts, so you may have gotten the wrong paint.

Also, when I did mine, I used what Duplicolor refers to as an 'adhesion promoter' which further helps the paint bond with the plastic bumpers.

If you're good at block sanding, you can most likely just sand and re-paint, using the correct paint and adhesion promoter. I used Duplicolor, that was specifically designed for bumper coating. Sold at Autozone and Advance.

I'd also highly advise waiting much, much longer than 10 seconds between coats. Depending upon your climate, I'd wait between 8-20 minutes between coats.

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Bosch
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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Location: Bothell, WA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jebus.. Ok its fixable, its gonna take some elbow grease but its fixable.. And note to self most of the people who work retail don't know squat about what we sell. We are not trained to know. I'm lucky I have a clue a small one but a clue.

I have some idea's but before you take my word as gospel please let some of the more experienced painters chime in too..

I would go for something in the 200-400 range of paper just knock back the cracked chunks of paint, not even getting into the bumper surface. It isn't gonna be pretty but at least its not a cracked mess anymore.

The once you get it close to the actual bumper surface I would see what you have. The I would drop the grit level even more probably more on the 400 side to even out what you have left on the bumpers, getting closer to the actual surface of the bumper. Just so you have something even to attack and the treatment can be equal all over the surface.

This is where I want to talk to an expert cause I'm not sure where to go next. I'm gonna PM CandyMan and shoot him a link to this thread cause he is a painter and should know what to do..

And dude FIRE your friend..

This was a cut and paste of the actual TSB that does address the tape marks on the bumpers.. So you have a blueprint to follow after you fix your mistake.. The local Schucks-Oreilly will have the bumper paint you need for this. Also see the Mod Bible there should be a how to in there too.

This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retreival system,
or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, or otherwise, without written permission of DaimlerChrysler Corporation.
SUBJECT:
Front Or Rear Fascia Discoloration
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves painting the mold in color (non-painted) area of one or both fascia.
MODELS:
2001 - 2003 (PT) PT Cruiser
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles with mold in color fascia.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may describe a whitening or discoloration on the mold in color (non-painted
area) of the front or rear fascia.
DIAGNOSIS:
If the customer describes and the technician verifies the Symptom/Condition, perform the
Repair Procedure.
PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description
AR NPN Scuff and Cleaner (SEM P/N 38338 or equivalent)
AR NPN Plastic Prep (SEM P/N 3835 or equivalent)
AR NPN Plastic Adhesion Promoter (SEM P/N 3986 or
equivalent)
AR NPN Bumper Coater, (SEM P/N 39273 or equivalent)
NOTE: For distribution or technical information contact SEM at 800-831-1122,
Monday through Thursday 8:00 AM until 5:00 PM Eastern Time or Friday 8:00
AM until 4:30 PM.
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
1. Clean all surfaces to be top coated using mild soap and water.
2. Prep with SEM 38338 Scuff & Clean. Apply using a gray scuff pad and scrub
thoroughly. Wash to remove all residue in preparation for top coat.
NUMBER: 23-034-04
GROUP: Body
DATE: September 10, 2004
3. Clean all surfaces to be top coated using SEM 3835 Plastic Prep.
4. Mask off adjacent areas to protect them from paint over spray.
5. Apply SEM 3986 Plastic Adhesion Promoter, allow 5 minutes to flash, apply a second
full wet coat. Allow 10-15 minutes but no more than 30 minutes flash time before top
coating.
6. Top coat using SEM 39273 Bumper Coater.
7. Follow application procedures on the SEM aerosol container.
8. Detail the vehicle to complete the repairs.
POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.
TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Operation No: Description Amount
23-60-44-90 Panel, Front Fascia - Color Coat 1.1 Hrs.
23-60-45-91 Panel, Rear Fascia - Color Coat 1.1 Hrs.
FAILURE CODE:
69 Discolored
23-034-04 -2-

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Bosch
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I send CandyMan a PM with a link to this post hopefully he will read this and chime in.. He's a real painter so he would know better than I what to do.. Cause what I'm thinking doesn't seem right..
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Benny
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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Location: Dearborn, MI

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris15 wrote:
I know Rustoleum makes a paint and primer spray specifically for plastic parts, so you may have gotten the wrong paint.

Also, when I did mine, I used what Duplicolor refers to as an 'adhesion promoter' which further helps the paint bond with the plastic bumpers.

If you're good at block sanding, you can most likely just sand and re-paint, using the correct paint and adhesion promoter. I used Duplicolor, that was specifically designed for bumper coating. Sold at Autozone and Advance.

I'd also highly advise waiting much, much longer than 10 seconds between coats. Depending upon your climate, I'd wait between 8-20 minutes between coats.

I repainted mine the same as above, Duplicolor adhesion promoter, and Duplicolor bumper coating.

and I'd say ditto on sanding it back down. and redoing it properly.

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Taggert_LOA
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to let you know that same laquer thinner will take the paint right off. it's not bonded to the bumper. then follow the other instructions.
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Bosch
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taggert_LOA wrote:
just to let you know that same laquer thinner will take the paint right off. it's not bonded to the bumper. then follow the other instructions.


That was where I was going, but wanted to know what to do to protect the paint, cause its gonna bleed as he is working to clean it up..

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paulrosenthal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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Location: St. Charles, MO

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your responses, everyone! I really do appreciate it. It seems that all of you have the same consensus that sanding, maybe lacquer thinner, and starting over would be the best. I will see if Candyman chimes in.

Thanks again for all of your responses!
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amx1397
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

go to a auto paint store as they have special paint for the bumpers,, with out the proper prep the paint will never stick,, and last go to a body shop,,,small one the big ones may not help,, ask them how and what to use to paint your bumpers,, i had a 2001 and had the bumpers painted the color of the car and they never crackes or anything,, the cost in Dec. 2000 was $200.00,, don't know what the charge would be today. jim
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Bosch
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, the OEM bumper coat, they sell it in spray cans at the parts store now.. What I'm gonna use this summer to turn my grey bumpers black.. Its ready to go in the can.. Has the flex agent in it already..

I wouldn't just sand it back then shoot the right paint since it would probably crack again and heaven forbid you bump something I think the wrong paint would probably just shatter, leaving a pretty ugly mess..

I would just mask off as much as I could and be real careful with the paint thinner working small controled sections so not to damage paint around the bumpers..

Mod bible post about painting the grey bumpers..

http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18055

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paulrosenthal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE: Lacquer thinner didn't do anything to the paint. My friend and I used coarse sand paper to sand both bumpers, leaving the bumpers looking very scratched. The bumpers were then treated with lacquer thinner. We put on three small coats of adhesion promoter from Duplicolor, and proceeded to put on about four coats per bumper of Duplicolor bumper coating.

The front bumper looks alright, but you can still see all of the scratches. After seemingly every coat, the scratches are less apparent, and many look to be gone.

The back continues to look bad, and looks like, at minimum, it will need three coats.

I have two questions that hopefully have simple answers.

1. With four VERY LIGHT coats on the bumper, we are beginning to wonder if the paint is too thick. How many very light coats can this bumper take? It seems that every coat makes it look better, but we don't peeling, chipping, etc.

2. Should I start checking the local junk yards for bumpers? Is the bumper surface most likely shot with all of these "abrasions" from the sand paper?
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j2detroit
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what you have is a lifting problem the substrate is reacting with the prodct that you are spraying over it the cracs will now have to be allowed to dry completly then anycracking or liftinf will have to be removed completely not just smotthed overyou will probly have to stripp it all the way then start from the begining following the correct steps to a succsessful finish application it sounds to me that by using laqure primer you may have had the reaction do you know if that area has been repaired before if it has it may have been painted with a product that is not mixed with a catalis like a can of spray paint some of these paints are laqure some are enamal some are acrylic enamals none of which are catalized in a spray can ps dont buy automotive paint at home depot go to a repitable parts house that sells paint and talk with someone ther Cool
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baggedptturbo03
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Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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Location: Anaheim,CA

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont trash the bumber its thick plasticky so kinda like metal just sand it untill all paint is off starting off medium grit and working smoother and smoother

I painted a lot of plastic stuff on cars over the years and its all about taking your time from step 1 wich is getting a nice clean smooth surface.. Then ruff it up slightly to get the paint something to stick to.. Clean the bumper.. Let it dry between all steps.. They have color primers to get the gray to a closer to finall step color like white, black, green.. ect

Take your time and if your not going to get it done in one day wait and finish it an another day.. If you dont take your time on each step you will never be happy and will get frustrated

Good luck just keep at it untill you get it right thats part of the fun of doing it youself.. Take a couple pictures and show us step by step what your doing like a DYI article and people can chime in and show you where you are doing good and not good
Adam
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XtrmDC2
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the date: July 2010 Shocked
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QuicksilverDon
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j2detroit wrote:
what you have is a lifting problem the substrate is reacting with the prodct that you are spraying over it the cracs will now have to be allowed to dry completly then anycracking or liftinf will have to be removed completely not just smotthed overyou will probly have to stripp it all the way then start from the begining following the correct steps to a succsessful finish application it sounds to me that by using laqure primer you may have had the reaction do you know if that area has been repaired before if it has it may have been painted with a product that is not mixed with a catalis like a can of spray paint some of these paints are laqure some are enamal some are acrylic enamals none of which are catalized in a spray can ps dont buy automotive paint at home depot go to a repitable parts house that sells paint and talk with someone ther Cool

Did you ever hear of punctuation?
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